I've been thinking about my own personal experience with the Spirit recently. It has been a long, gradual process. For a long time I've wanted to understand what the Charismatics were going on about, because I've felt my own experience of the Spirit could and should be deeper. For the sake of time and energy, I'm only going to post some of my conclusions for now:
1. The Spirit's main role in believer's lives is to glorify and reveal Christ, and to make us like Christ.
2. Our experience of Christ on earth is mediated by the Spirit, both through the Word and personal experience.
3. The gift of the Holy Spirit is one of the main benefits of salvation on earth, and the primary means of assurance of being a son of God/being in Christ.
4. The Spirit is one of the major differences in the New Covenant, and our experience of the Spirit should be qualitatively and quantitatively different and deeper than the Old Covenant saints.
5. There is NOT a second, separate "baptism of the Holy Spirit" apart from conversion.
6. There ARE post-conversion "fillings" of the Spirit, and deep, powerful post-conversion experiences of the Spirit (with the manifestation of the miraculous gifts like tongues, healing, and prophecy).
7. We are to ask for and seek such experiences seen in #5 above. It is not sinful or a lack of faith to seek communion with the Spirit and Christ through the Spirit.
8. God distributes his Spirit to whom he wills, when he wills. We can't demand the Spirit because of our faith/asking. We can, however, expect the Spirit through faithful prayer.
These are some preliminary conclusions. Thoughts?
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
Some Thoughts on the Spirit
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4 comments:
I think I have issues with a few of the things you said:
4. The Spirit is one of the major differences in the New Covenant, and our experience of the Spirit should be qualitatively and quantitatively different and deeper than the Old Covenant saints.
How can anyone come to know the Lord without his influence on their heart - did OT saints come to the Lord by works?
7. We are to ask for and seek such experiences seen in #5 above. It is not sinful or a lack of faith to seek communion with the Spirit and Christ through the Spirit.
8. God distributes his Spirit to whom he wills, when he wills. We can't demand the Spirit because of our faith/asking. We can, however, expect the Spirit through faithful prayer.
I am not sure if I agree with you as far as saying we should seek after the type of "filling" you refer to ("manifestation of the miraculous gifts like tongues, healing, and prophecy") because those things are not helpful in regard to my personal relationship with Christ (I am not dealing with the issue that they are for edification of the church...). If I do a miracle, I am not changed - it is done through me, not because of me. Whereas love is something that is caused in me and changes me into the likeness of Christ. Holiness does not come out of the "sign" gifts. The aspects of the Spirit's influence that are universal to all believers are the ones that are eternally beneficial to my relationship with God. God gives the "sign" gifts to non-believers.
The main seeking should be for the gifts given only to believers (1 Cor. 13).
Just some quick thoughts - now back to my OT class :)
I've been meaning to read this:
http://drbarrick.org/Website%20Files/tmsj11b.pdf
I'm sure it's quite interesting.
-Nathan
A couple thoughts came to mind...
1. I agree with what you said about there not being a second baptism of the Spirit. In Greek we talked about the idea of "baptidzo" (not sure if that is phonetic enough, but you get the point) as being a baptism or an immersion into something. Interestingly enough this opened up my thoughts about the baptism of the Spirit. That the believer is immersed in Christ (baptism) and immersed into the Spirit. This can be seen in the believer's life, which is saturated by the Spirit.
2. I have been reading through Ezekiel and he constantly makes reference to the "Spirit lifted me up". Often when he heard from God or saw a vision the "Spirit lifted him up". He does not demand it, it happens apart from his will. As if for him to experience and hear from God in that sort of way he must have that "Spirit experience". This would go along with the idea of there being post-conversion "Spirit fillings".
Interesting post.
I pretty much agree with your assessment 100%, Danny. As to #5 ... that's what I believe, but there's definitely some side-stepping you have to do.
Acts 8:12-17, the end of Acts 10, the beginning of Acts 19, all of these passages seem to indicate the importance of a baptism with the Spirit ... in Acts 8, they receive the spirit after accepting Christ; in Acts 10, Peter points out the gift of the Spirit as the proof of conversion; Acts 19, although it may be emphasizing John over Jesus, does also demonstrate that the true conversion is accompanied by a filling of the Spirit. There are explanations for all of these, but Ockham's razor applies to theology as well ...
How can anyone come to know the Lord without his influence on their heart - did OT saints come to the Lord by works?
"This is the work of God, to believe in Him whom He has sent."
"Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness."
Oh no! Hold the presses! Christianity is a works-based religion!
Seriously, the atonement is not retroactive. If OT believers had the same relationship that NT ones do, why does it speak in 2 Corinthians about a "lifting of the veil"? Though the OT occasionally makes reference to God's spirit inspiring/filling prophets, I think Christ is pretty clear that the "Gift of the Holy Spirit" is a new thing, that is not available to those who have not yet been atoned for.
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